| Author |
Message |
LASERandDVDfan
Guest
|
 Posted:
Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:22 am Post subject:
Re: Looking for an old (no Macrovision) VCR |
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| Quote: | Perhaps you would like to back that up.
|
Okay.
Your quote: "Macrovision was made for old VCRs, but gradually some
manufacturers made improvements in the AGC circuits that made them able to cope
with the
macrovision interference so you could record tape-tape."
MacroVision was designed specifically to confuse a VCR's automatic picture gain
controller by injecting white blocks in the vertical blanking interval. This
would cause the AGC to assume that the video signal is overdriven and will
reduce gain in reaction to this. Ideally for MacroVision, when the video gain
is reduced in this way, it reduces the video signal strength, sometimes to the
point where synch cannot be maintained and, as a result, making a decent
quality copy will not be possible.
However, there were many VCRs that will react differently to MacroVision. A
lot reacted in exactly the same way as previously described. Some reacted by
having a picture with the top being darker than the bottom. Some don't even
react enough to be a problem. Mind you, this covered VCRs from 1977 all the
way up to now covering various models from various brands.
All of my Sony decks, both Beta and VHS from 1984 to 1994, react to MacroVision
with varying luma levels, but with no loss of synch.
My Sanyo OEMed Sears Beta deck of 1984 vintage reacts to MacroVision with the
upper half of the picture dimmer than the lower half. Also the same reaction
that I had from an old 1979 vintage Sanyo OEMed Sears top loading Beta machine.
My GoldStar OEMed Sears VHS deck from 1989 reacts to MacroVision the worst,
with extreme loss of luma and synch.
My Akai VHS deck of 1987 vintage is, perhaps, the best at dealing with
MacroVision, even with the variation used in DVD-Video.
My Panasonic OEMed Magnavox deck of 1987 vintage reacts to MacroVision in
exactly the same way as my Sonys.
My 1990s vintage Mitsubishi deck reacts to MacroVision also like the Sonys, but
with less effect.
My JVC OEMed Kenwood deck from 1987 also reacts to MacroVision like the Sonys.
Your Quote: "Manufacturers then had to build in macrovision sensitivity back
into the recording ciruits, but some can be neutralised by service menus or
hidden codes, like the regional coding on DVD."
Now this claim is horse hockey. Pure and unadulterated mistruth.
There is no such thing as a service menu or a hidden code that will suddenly
make a VCR instantly "immune" to MacroVision.
Some VCRs are less reactive because of how they were designed, while others are
moreso for the same reason.
But, one point that must be made is that no machine with an automatic video
gain controller is totally immune to MacroVision. Even machines least reactive
to it do still exhibit some side effects with MacroVision.
Your quote: "Digital recorders (of analogue signals) have no sensitivity to
standard
macrovision interference atall and must actually detect the macrovision
signal and refuse to record it."
Digital recorders can be affected in the exact same way as analogue recorders
in regards to MacroVision when dealing with a video signal that is not already
converted into the digital domain. An analogue feed has to go through the same
processes, including video gain compensation, before it is converted into a
digital code for recording onto a disc. However, a digital video recorder can
be set up to recognize the MacroVision pattern in the vertical blanking when
handling the video signal and refuse recording completely.
But the point is that, since digital video recorders for the home also use auto
picture gain control components to manage the video feed before conversion,
MacroVision could still affect the video in the same way if the recorder
weren't programmed to refuse recording when MacroVision is detected. -
Reinhart
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NeoRenegade
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:03 pm Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
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|
sherwood blurted:
| Quote: | I don't recall saying or implying that ALL Japanese engineers are
morons, just the ones that made some of the design decisions mentioned
in my examples.
|
*Chuckle*... it's in the thread title.
- NR |
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Bretford
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:38 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
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|
"NeoRenegade" <napsterneorenegade@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:t8ISc.7045$s81.62533@wagner.videotron.net...
| Quote: | sherwood blurted:
I don't recall saying or implying that ALL Japanese engineers are
morons, just the ones that made some of the design decisions mentioned
in my examples.
*Chuckle*... it's in the thread title.
- NR
|
Hey just wondering NR, where does it say "ALL" in the thread title ? |
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sherwood
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:35 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
|
|
| Quote: | I don't recall saying or implying that ALL Japanese engineers are
morons, just the ones that made some of the design decisions
mentioned
in my examples.
*Chuckle*... it's in the thread title.
- NR
|
Thread title: "Japanese VCR engineers are morons". That could mean two
engineers, three, etc. But no matter how many times I read the title I
cannot find where it states "All".....
SW |
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ric
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:52 pm Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
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|
sherwood wrote:
| Quote: | *Chuckle*... it's in the thread title.
- NR
Thread title: "Japanese VCR engineers are morons". That could mean two
engineers, three, etc. But no matter how many times I read the title I
cannot find where it states "All".....
|
Nor does it say "SOME..." By leaving out "SOME" you implied "ALL."
Consider the statement "DVDs are better than VHS." It doesn't mean "SOME"
CDs are better. If so, it would have said "SOME..."
Don't hurt yourself backstepping. |
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Tony Stanley
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:18 am Post subject:
Re: Looking for an old (no Macrovision) VCR |
|
|
"LASERandDVDfan" <laseranddvdfan@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040811222233.04811.00002317@mb-m24.aol.com...
| Quote: | Perhaps you would like to back that up.
Okay.
Your quote: "Macrovision was made for old VCRs, but gradually some
manufacturers made improvements in the AGC circuits that made them able to
cope
with the
macrovision interference so you could record tape-tape."
MacroVision was designed specifically to confuse a VCR's automatic picture
gain
controller by injecting white blocks in the vertical blanking interval.
This
would cause the AGC to assume that the video signal is overdriven and will
reduce gain in reaction to this. Ideally for MacroVision, when the video
gain
is reduced in this way, it reduces the video signal strength, sometimes to
the
point where synch cannot be maintained and, as a result, making a decent
quality copy will not be possible.
There are gain circuits all over the place in VCRs, mainly it was the preamp |
that basic macrovision attacked. Later versions messed with colour, and
sync, and other stuff I don't about.
| Quote: | However, there were many VCRs that will react differently to MacroVision.
A
lot reacted in exactly the same way as previously described. Some reacted
by
having a picture with the top being darker than the bottom. Some don't
even
react enough to be a problem. Mind you, this covered VCRs from 1977 all
the
way up to now covering various models from various brands.
All of my Sony decks, both Beta and VHS from 1984 to 1994, react to
MacroVision
with varying luma levels, but with no loss of synch.
My Sanyo OEMed Sears Beta deck of 1984 vintage reacts to MacroVision with
the
upper half of the picture dimmer than the lower half. Also the same
reaction
that I had from an old 1979 vintage Sanyo OEMed Sears top loading Beta
machine.
My GoldStar OEMed Sears VHS deck from 1989 reacts to MacroVision the
worst,
with extreme loss of luma and synch.
My Akai VHS deck of 1987 vintage is, perhaps, the best at dealing with
MacroVision, even with the variation used in DVD-Video.
My Panasonic OEMed Magnavox deck of 1987 vintage reacts to MacroVision in
exactly the same way as my Sonys.
My 1990s vintage Mitsubishi deck reacts to MacroVision also like the
Sonys, but
with less effect.
My JVC OEMed Kenwood deck from 1987 also reacts to MacroVision like the
Sonys.
Your Quote: "Manufacturers then had to build in macrovision sensitivity
back
into the recording ciruits, but some can be neutralised by service menus
or
hidden codes, like the regional coding on DVD."
Now this claim is horse hockey. Pure and unadulterated mistruth.
There is no such thing as a service menu or a hidden code that will
suddenly
make a VCR instantly "immune" to MacroVision.
|
Strange, I'm sure it was there on certain generation when I was Product
Engineering Manager of a certain manufacturer for the last 15 years. And
I'm sure the designer told me that they had to change it because the
semi-conduct manufacturers had introduced a more fast acting ciruits in the
Preamp and VHS process ICs, and there had been legal challenges which they
didn't want to be part of.
Of course all video circuits have gain control, but its not just gain
control interference, as Macrovision noticed that different manufacturer
products reacted in different ways they gradually improved the system with
several enhancements ending in version 7 by the time I stopped dealing with
VCR.
| Quote: | Some VCRs are less reactive because of how they were designed, while
others are
moreso for the same reason.
But, one point that must be made is that no machine with an automatic
video
gain controller is totally immune to MacroVision. Even machines least
reactive
to it do still exhibit some side effects with MacroVision.
Your quote: "Digital recorders (of analogue signals) have no sensitivity
to
standard
macrovision interference atall and must actually detect the macrovision
signal and refuse to record it."
Digital recorders can be affected in the exact same way as analogue
recorders
in regards to MacroVision when dealing with a video signal that is not
already
converted into the digital domain. An analogue feed has to go through the
same
processes, including video gain compensation, before it is converted into
a
digital code for recording onto a disc. However, a digital video recorder
can
be set up to recognize the MacroVision pattern in the vertical blanking
when
handling the video signal and refuse recording completely.
But the point is that, since digital video recorders for the home also use
auto
picture gain control components to manage the video feed before
conversion,
MacroVision could still affect the video in the same way if the recorder
weren't programmed to refuse recording when MacroVision is detected. -
Reinhart
|
Well it didn't affect the analogue PVR we were developing, the signal
generally comes straight into the video DAC. I must try it again with a
seperate DVD.
Fundamentally Macrovision walks a fine line between affecting recording
circuits and working with the TV. I am not an expert on Macrovision, but
was working on the theory that Digital recorders do not need to split up,
downcovert, freq modulate etc and are therefore more like TVs.
I can't claim all digital recorder will be unaffected by all Macrovision
versions, and I can't even claim that the PVR I saw working with it will be
ok on all versions of Macrovision as we didn't know the version we happened
to try it with, and we wern't trying to defeat the system anyway, however I
can say at least one manufactuer defeated some of it some of the time and
had to impliment countermeasures to restore sensitivity and there was a
service menu with a tonne of other stuff in it, to set frequency
characteristic, clip levels, etc.
--
Tony |
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Bretford
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Aug 14, 2004 5:08 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
|
|
| Quote: | Thread title: "Japanese VCR engineers are morons". That could mean two
engineers, three, etc. But no matter how many times I read the title I
cannot find where it states "All".....
Nor does it say "SOME..." By leaving out "SOME" you implied "ALL."
Consider the statement "DVDs are better than VHS." It doesn't mean "SOME"
CDs are better. If so, it would have said "SOME..."
Don't hurt yourself backstepping.
|
By leaving out "ALL", I implied "Some". Got that? |
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ric
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Aug 14, 2004 7:41 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
|
|
Bretford wrote:
| Quote: | Nor does it say "SOME..." By leaving out "SOME" you implied "ALL."
Consider the statement "DVDs are better than VHS." It doesn't mean "SOME"
CDs are better. If so, it would have said "SOME..."
Don't hurt yourself backstepping.
By leaving out "ALL", I implied "Some". Got that?
|
The word "SOME" is never implied. Nice try, though. |
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LASERandDVDfan
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
|
|
| Quote: | By leaving out "ALL", I implied "Some". Got that?
|
Stop acting like a frickin' pussy and take the fact that you made a bad point
like a man.
PLONK. - Reinhart
P.S. With having an obviously non-existent domain and address, it's most
likely that you're here to flame than to give any kind of useful information or
opinion.
Bretfordplumbing@ifixpipes.com. What the hell kind of name is that?
If the video business you work for is intent on wasting their time during work
hours on usenet and the internet, what does that say about the business'
professionalism? - Reinhart |
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LASERandDVDfan
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:41 am Post subject:
Re: Looking for an old (no Macrovision) VCR |
|
|
| Quote: | Fundamentally Macrovision walks a fine line between affecting recording
circuits and working with the TV.
|
Especially with various older vintage Sony TVs and many rear-projection CRT
displays. - Reinhart |
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Bretford
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:08 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
|
|
"LASERandDVDfan" <laseranddvdfan@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040814122735.00667.00001534@mb-m03.aol.com...
| Quote: | By leaving out "ALL", I implied "Some". Got that?
Stop acting like a frickin' pussy and take the fact that you made a bad
point
like a man.
PLONK. - Reinhart
P.S. With having an obviously non-existent domain and address, it's most
likely that you're here to flame than to give any kind of useful
information or
opinion.
Bretfordplumbing@ifixpipes.com. What the hell kind of name is that?
If the video business you work for is intent on wasting their time during
work
hours on usenet and the internet, what does that say about the business'
professionalism? - Reinhart
|
Reiny:
Plumbing is a side business, ya know what I'm sayin'? As far as the video
end of things we getty pretty bored on some days, especially when Erika is
out of the office. When she is here at least we can go in the back room and
play around a bit (Erika is the bosses wife) but there are slow days and
there are busy days. |
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gaffo
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:34 am Post subject:
Re: RCA output to BNC input |
|
|
Rich wrote:
| Quote: | "BeBop" <be@bob.a.lu.la.com> wrote in message
news:DfTFc.714771$Ar.23711@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Hello;
I have a VCR and a DVD attached to an old video monitor (A Commodore-64
monitor from 1982, to be exact) . I don't want a TV in my house, and this
setup allowed my son to watch DVD and videos.
Yesterday the monitor finally died. I found another monitor that ONLY has
BNC inputs. My DVD can output to BNC, buy my VCR can not. I see there
are
physical adapters that will let me connects RCA out to BNC in, but I
don't
know if it will work. The BNC has 5 inputs. Is one of them composite
video?
Thanks
I don't think so. It's normally Red, Green, Blue, horizontal sync, and
vertical sync.
Rich
|
yep.
--
http://baltimorechronicle.com/041704reTreason.shtml
http://www.truthinaction.net/iraq/illegaljayne.htm
As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both
instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged.
And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air
-- however slight -lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.
Justice William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court (1939-75)
"It shows us that there were senior people in the Bush administration who
were seriously contemplating the use of torture, and trying to figure out
whether there were any legal loopholes that might allow them to commit
criminal acts, They seem to be putting forward a theory that the president
in wartime can essentially do what he wants regardless of what the law
may say,"
Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch - commenting upon Defense
Department Lawyer
Will Dunham's 56-page legalization of torture memo.
If you add all of those up, you should have a conservative rebellion against
the giant corporation in the White House masquerading as a human being named
George W. Bush. Just as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate
Democrats and told, "You got nowhere to go other than to stay home or
vote for
the Democrats", this is the fate of the authentic conservatives in the
Republican Party.
Ralph Nader - June 2004 - The American Conservative Magazine
"But I believe in torture and I will torture you."
-An American soldier shares the joys of Democracy with
an Iraqi prisoner.
"My mother praises me for fighting the Americans. If we are killed,
our wives and mothers will rejoice that we died defending the
freedom of our country.
-Iraqi Mahdi fighter
"We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise, soon American soldiers came.
One of them kicked me to see if I was alive. I pretended I was dead
so he wouldn't kill me. The soldier was laughing, when Yousef cried,
the soldier said: "'No, stop,"
-Shihab, survivor of USSA bombing of Iraqi wedding.
"the absolute convergence of the neoconservatives with the Christian
Zionists
and the pro-Israel lobby, driving U.S. Mideast policy."
-Don Wagner, an evangelical South Carolina minister
"Bush, in Austin, criticized President Clinton's administration for
the Kosovo military action.'Victory means exit strategy, and it's important
for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is,' Bush said."
Houston Chronicle 4/9/99
"Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to
destabilize their country."
Washington, D.C., May 5, 2004
"The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem
of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there's a major
incident and then suddenly say, 'Oh my God, shouldn't we be organized
to deal with this?'"
- Paul Bremer, speaking to a McCormick Tribune Foundation conference
on terrorism in Wheaton, Ill. on Feb. 26, 2001.
"On Jan. 26, 1998, President Clinton received a letter imploring him to use
his State of the Union address to make removal of Saddam Hussein's regime
the "aim of American foreign policy" and to use military action because
"diplomacy is failing." Were Clinton to do that, the signers pledged, they
would "offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor."
Signing the pledge were Elliott Abrams, Bill Bennett, John Bolton, Robert
Kagan, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Richard L. Armitage, Jeffrey
Bergner,
Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Zalmay Khalilzad, Peter W. Rodman,
William Schneider, Jr., Vin Weber, R. James Woolsey and Robert B. Zoellick,
Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. Four years before 9/11, the neocons had
Baghdad on their minds."
-philip (usenet)
"I had better things to do in the 60s than fight in Vietnam,"
-Richard Cheney, Kerry critic.
"I hope they will understand that in order for this government to get up
and running
- to be effective - some of its sovereignty will have to be given
back, if I can put it that way,
or limited by them, It's sovereignty but [some] of that sovereignty they
are going to allow us to exercise
on their behalf and with their permission."
- Powell 4/27/04
"We're trying to explain how things are going, and they are going as they
are going," he said, adding: "Some things are going well and some things
obviously are not going well. You're going to have good days and bad days."
On the road to democracy, this "is one moment, and there will be other
moments. And there will be good moments and there will be less good
moments."
- Rumsfeld 4/6/04
"I also have this belief, strong belief, that freedom is not this
country's gift to the world; freedom is the Almighty's gift to
every man and woman in this world. And as the greatest power on
the face of the Earth, we have an obligation to help the spread
of freedom."
~ Bush the Crusader
RUSSERT: Are you prepared to lose?
BUSH: No, I'm not going to lose.
RUSSERT: If you did, what would you do?
BUSH: Well, I don't plan on losing. I've got a vision for what I want to
do for the country.
See, I know exactly where I want to lead.................And we got
changing times
here in America, too., 2/8/04
"And that's very important for, I think, the people to understand where
I'm coming from,
to know that this is a dangerous world. I wish it wasn't. I'm a war
president.
I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with
war on my mind.
- pResident of the United State of America, 2/8/04
"Let's talk about the nuclear proposition for a minute. We know that
based on intelligence, that he has been very, very good at hiding
these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know
he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons.
And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
- Vice President Dick Cheney, on "Meet the Press", 3/16/03
"I don't know anybody that I can think of who has contended that the
Iraqis had nuclear weapons."
- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, 6/24/03
"I think in this case international law
stood in the way of doing the right thing (invading Iraq)."
- Richard Perle
"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with
respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project
conventional power against his neighbours."
- Colin Powell February 24 2001
"We have been successful for the last ten years in keeping
him from developing those weapons and we will continue to be successful."
"He threatens not the United States."
"But I also thought that we had pretty
much removed his stings and frankly for ten years we really have."
'But what is interesting is that with the regime that has been in place
for the past ten years, I think a pretty good job has been done of
keeping him from breaking out and suddenly showing up one day and saying
"look what I got." He hasn't been able to do that.'
- Colin Powell February 26 2001 |
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b
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:56 pm Post subject:
Re: Looking for an old (no Macrovision) VCR |
|
|
re: macrovision 'immune' vcrs:
I had a SAMSUNG SX-1230 AND 1260 (mono, 2 head) about 1990 vintage,
they seemed immune, and a Panasonic nv-h70 hi fi vcr of about the same
year which had very little disturbance to the luma if i recall
correctly.
I heard a rumour that JVC (the licesee for vhs) tightened the spec for
the vhs standard sometime in the 1990s, to increase the effect of
macrovision copy protection on AGC circuits ( possibly becuase they
had interests in retail or film distribution? ) perhaps someone out
there could clarify this?
Ben |
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LASERandDVDfan
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:45 pm Post subject:
Re: Looking for an old (no Macrovision) VCR |
|
|
| Quote: | I heard a rumour that JVC (the licesee for vhs) tightened the spec for
the vhs standard sometime in the 1990s, to increase the effect of
macrovision copy protection on AGC circuits ( possibly becuase they
had interests in retail or film distribution? )
|
This is possible, although this is speculation towards a conclusion which might
not be true. (So, don't quote me on it.)
If I'm not mistaken, JVC is a subsidiary of Matsushita Electric, which is also
a parent company of Panasonic. Matsushita did manage to gain control of Music
Corporation of America sometime ago, which owned Universal Pictures. MCA used
MacroVision extensively with their home video releases in the 1980s on VHS and
Beta, so it's safe to guess that Matsushita's media interests would be better
protected by possibly revising the VHS standard.
On a sidenote, videodisc releases for both CED (1981-1986) and LaserDisc
(1978-2001) do not have MacroVision as they would affect the DAXI control
operation of a CED player as well as interfere with the Philips code required
for proper operation of a LaserDisc player. Player control coding in CED and
LaserVision software are both stored in the vertical blanking interval, which
would leave no room for MacroVision as it occupies the same space in the same
interval.
A conflict between the leadership of Matsushita and MCA caused Matsushita
Electric to sell MCA to Seagram's.
To detail it further:
Eventually MCA would be acquired by Vivendi and would become Vivendi/Universal,
dropping the MCA name altogether.
There you have it, MCA was started in America, purchased and then sold by a
Japanese company, purchased and then sold by another American company, and then
finally acquired by a French company. - Reinhart |
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Zerubbabel
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:26 pm Post subject:
Re: All new Britney Spears not a little girl any more |
|
|
NEVER open any attachments with a .scr file type!
"joan" <r.ybnjca@qywbmjca.com> wrote in message
news:_YpZc.296108$gE.4206@pd7tw3no...
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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