| Author |
Message |
sherwood
Guest
|
 Posted:
Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:18 pm Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
|
|
| Quote: | A couple *hundred* bad caps? There are consumer devices out there that
*need* hundreds of caps in their circuitry?! Ya learn something new
every day.
|
No, smart-ass - it was not a consumer deck, it was an $8000 pro editing
deck I was referring to
|
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|
 |
mo
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:26 am Post subject:
Re: Help with Sony SLV-R5UC caps - FIXED |
|
|
"Ron" <ron@nospam.net> wrote in message news:<41157553_1@news.cybersurf.net>...
| Quote: | After replacing it with a recycled, run-of-the-mill 10V/22uF cap,
this R5 is working again like a charm!! -Ron
|
Well done buddy!
Still,I'm sure it took a lot longer to repair,than it took to read your story.
How do you actually earn a living?
Maybe you need a career change.
Again,Congratulations. |
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GMAN
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:50 am Post subject:
Re: Looking for an old (no Macrovision) VCR |
|
|
In article <cf5tap$n61$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>, "Tony Stanley" <t@not1spam.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
"GMAN" <glenzabr@xmission.com> wrote in message
news:cdh7gn$u2m$1@news.xmission.com...
In article <10fmippn621oec4@corp.supernews.com>, "Joseph S. Powell, III"
nospam@nospam.net> wrote:
I think R.J. was actually looking for a pre-Macrovision VCR, and this
would
have to be from the latter-80's or older...I don't think any VCR's
manufactured in the 90's are without it.
clueless
Macrovision was made for old VCRs, but gradually some manufacturers made
improvements in the AGC circuits that made them able to cope with the
macrovision interference so you could record tape-tape. However after some
time macrovision caught onto this and eventually it became illegal (or at
least dodgy) to make or disribute products particularily for the purpose of
breaking copy protection. Manufacturers then had to build in macrovision
sensitivity back into the recording ciruits, but some can be neutralised by
service menus or hidden codes, like the regional coding on DVD. I vaguely
remember hearing some laws were passed in the EU, but can't be sure.
Digital recorders (of analogue signals) have no sensitivity to standard
macrovision interference atall and must actually detect the macrovision
signal and refuse to record it.
Every single part of what you wrote is incorrect!!! |
|
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|
|
LASERandDVDfan
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:12 am Post subject:
Re: Help with Sony SLV-R5UC caps - FIXED |
|
|
| Quote: | I had already checked all caps previously from the conductor
side, and they were all ok, but this one (C240) was a surface
mount cap and couldn't be reached or seen without
unsoldering the shielding first.
After replacing it with a recycled, run-of-the-mill 10V/22uF cap,
this R5 is working again like a charm!! -Ron
|
Congratulations! Those surface mount caps sure are pesky little parts, eh? -
Reinhart |
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|
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LASERandDVDfan
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:34 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
|
|
| Quote: | We had a Sony Hi-8 editor that had a couple hundred
bad caps, took $2,000+ to get it repaired.
|
And they would be surface mounted, I would guess.
IMO, every kind of equipment that usually deals with "micro" video cassette
formats, from Video 8 to VHS-C, from Sony to Panasonic, are junk primarily
because they use too many surface mount caps, which love to leak every five
years or so.
If I ever deal with VHS-C, it will be in an adaptor in a full-sized Hitachi VHS
camcorder, JVC professional VHS camcorder, or Panasonic professional VHS
camcorder, which defeats the purpose of owning VHS-C to begin with (for me
anyways).
| Quote: | The MII series is what I was referring to. But compare the price of ANY
PR's between Sony and Panasonic and see who is screwing who.
|
M-II runs at a slower linear speed than Betacam, which necessitates different
pinch roller designs to cater to these differences.
M-II, as far as I know, is similar in quality to Betacam but was introduced as
a more economical alternative to it and for use by NHK. M-II tapes employ a
metal-evaporated binder instead of a metal-particle binder in BetacamSP.
(Which is, perhaps, the reason why BetacamSP heads may have a shorter life.
Metal particle tapes are harder on video heads, and couple this with the very
fast linear speed and you have accelerated wear out. NTSC Betacam can run a
750 foot spool of tape in approximately 30 minutes. The same length would take
approximately three hours for NTSC Betamax in the BII speed.) - Reinhart |
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LASERandDVDfan
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:39 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
|
|
| Quote: | A couple *hundred* bad caps? There are consumer devices out there that
*need* hundreds of caps in their circuitry?! Ya learn something new
every day.
|
That's not really a surprise with an 8mm VCR.
As for camcorders that deal with VHS-C, 8mm video, Mini DV and, eventually, DVD
Video, this problem is rampant and widespread because of the inherent problems
with surface mount electrolytic capacitors.
This is the reason why it is recommended that you use your camcorders every two
weeks instead of letting them sit unused for extended periods. And even doing
that doesn't guarantee that you'll get 5-10 years of life out of them.
As for capacitor problems, the absolute worst of the whole bunch was Canon. -
Reinhart |
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|
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LASERandDVDfan
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:40 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
|
|
| Quote: | No, smart-ass - it was not a consumer deck, it was an $8000 pro editing
deck I was referring to
|
There was no need to be an asshole to the poster about it.
That alone puts you in my killfile. - Reinhart |
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sherwood
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:17 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
|
|
| Quote: | There was no need to be an asshole to the poster about it.
That alone puts you in my killfile. - Reinhart
|
I wasn't being an asshole, did you read his original reply? |
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|
|
Ron
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:56 pm Post subject:
Re: Help with Sony SLV-R5UC caps - FIXED |
|
|
| Quote: | After replacing it with a recycled, run-of-the-mill 10V/22uF cap,
this R5 is working again like a charm!! -Ron
"NeoRenegade" <napsterneorenegade@hotmail.com> wrote
I'm happy to hear that. Yay for electronics wiz-kids! ;)
- NR
|
I guess the original $1,267.70 (CND) price tag, and the fact that
I have babied this thing through all its other hiccups over the years
didn't want to make me toss it like a $59 Wal-Mart special.
This is simply a fabulous, one-of-a-kind VCR when working
properly.
| Quote: | "LASERandDVDfan" <laseranddvdfan@aol.com> wrote
Congratulations! Those surface mount caps sure are pesky little parts,
eh? -
Reinhart
|
Yeah, right - thank God for magnifying glasses! -Ron |
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|
|
NeoRenegade
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:33 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
|
|
sherwood wrote:
| Quote: | A couple *hundred* bad caps? There are consumer devices out there that
*need* hundreds of caps in their circuitry?! Ya learn something new
every day.
No, smart-ass - it was not a consumer deck, it was an $8000 pro editing
deck I was referring to
|
Smart-ass, eh? Mind telling this smart-ass what that many caps are
needed for?
- NR |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sherwood
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:05 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
|
|
"NeoRenegade" <napsterneorenegade@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:WtWRc.52576$7S3.1201120@wagner.videotron.net...
| Quote: | sherwood wrote:
A couple *hundred* bad caps? There are consumer devices out there
that
*need* hundreds of caps in their circuitry?! Ya learn something new
every day.
No, smart-ass - it was not a consumer deck, it was an $8000 pro
editing
deck I was referring to
Smart-ass, eh? Mind telling this smart-ass what that many caps are
needed for?
|
The recent problem with caps resulted from a defective electrolyte that
was used in the past to manufacture millions and millions of cheap
capacitors, mostly by Taiwan companies. The defective electrolyte forms
hydrogen, then the capacitors leak, bulge, or blow out.
What does knowing what the caps are needed for have anything to do with
the subject of bad caps? I could probably get someone who still works at
the company to pull the repair invoice if it were that important. If I
remember right there were bad caps in the power supply, servo board,
audio board and the main board. I believe most of the bad ones were on
the main board, a part which Sony no longer offered or it would have
been easier to replace the whole board (thanks, Sony). |
|
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|
|
NeoRenegade
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:23 pm Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
|
|
sherwood wrote:
| Quote: | "NeoRenegade" <napsterneorenegade@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:WtWRc.52576$7S3.1201120@wagner.videotron.net...
sherwood wrote:
A couple *hundred* bad caps? There are consumer devices out there
that
*need* hundreds of caps in their circuitry?! Ya learn something new
every day.
No, smart-ass - it was not a consumer deck, it was an $8000 pro
editing
deck I was referring to
Smart-ass, eh? Mind telling this smart-ass what that many caps are
needed for?
The recent problem with caps resulted from a defective electrolyte that
was used in the past to manufacture millions and millions of cheap
capacitors, mostly by Taiwan companies. The defective electrolyte forms
hydrogen, then the capacitors leak, bulge, or blow out.
What does knowing what the caps are needed for have anything to do with
the subject of bad caps? I could probably get someone who still works at
the company to pull the repair invoice if it were that important. If I
remember right there were bad caps in the power supply, servo board,
audio board and the main board. I believe most of the bad ones were on
the main board, a part which Sony no longer offered or it would have
been easier to replace the whole board (thanks, Sony).
|
Hmph... so do you figure it was more voltage recification, or signal
processing that they were needed for? I can imagine a coupld dozen caps
but a couple hundred... wow.
Thanks for the expanded reply.
- NR |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tony Stanley
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:34 am Post subject:
Re: Looking for an old (no Macrovision) VCR |
|
|
"GMAN" <glenzabr@nospamallowed.xmission.com> wrote in message
news:cf6la3$sbb$1@news.xmission.com...
| Quote: | In article <cf5tap$n61$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>, "Tony Stanley"
t@not1spam.co.uk> wrote:
"GMAN" <glenzabr@xmission.com> wrote in message
news:cdh7gn$u2m$1@news.xmission.com...
In article <10fmippn621oec4@corp.supernews.com>, "Joseph S. Powell,
III"
nospam@nospam.net> wrote:
I think R.J. was actually looking for a pre-Macrovision VCR, and this
would
have to be from the latter-80's or older...I don't think any VCR's
manufactured in the 90's are without it.
clueless
Macrovision was made for old VCRs, but gradually some manufacturers made
improvements in the AGC circuits that made them able to cope with the
macrovision interference so you could record tape-tape. However after
some
time macrovision caught onto this and eventually it became illegal (or at
least dodgy) to make or disribute products particularily for the purpose
of
breaking copy protection. Manufacturers then had to build in macrovision
sensitivity back into the recording ciruits, but some can be neutralised
by
service menus or hidden codes, like the regional coding on DVD. I
vaguely
remember hearing some laws were passed in the EU, but can't be sure.
Digital recorders (of analogue signals) have no sensitivity to standard
macrovision interference atall and must actually detect the macrovision
signal and refuse to record it.
Every single part of what you wrote is incorrect!!!
|
Perhaps you would like to back that up. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LASERandDVDfan
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:30 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
|
|
Replying to post from sherwood through a response from another poster.
| Quote: | The recent problem with caps resulted from a defective electrolyte that
was used in the past to manufacture millions and millions of cheap
capacitors, mostly by Taiwan companies.
|
To be more specific, an incomplete electrolyte formula that was essentially
stolen from Rubycon was used by many cheaper Taiwanese and Chinese capacitor
manufacturers.
A scientist that worked there left Rubycon and then gave the incomplete formula
to outside sources. The incomplete formula allows the electrolyte to undergo
electrolysis and form hyrdogen gas that would build up internal pressure and
eventually burst the can.
There were, however, a few Taiwanese capacitor makers that weren't affected.
Jamicon is one brand as their electrolyte supply was sourced from Matsushita
Electric in Osaka, Japan.
This problem has mainly affected mostly non-Japanese electronics brands, mainly
in Taiwan and China. Consequently, this is also why many mainboard
manufacturers have had capacitor troubles a few years ago due to this event,
even from respected brands like Asus, Abit, and Soyo. A lot of mainboard
manufacturers, including a few of the good ones, are based in Taiwan and China.
But, as far as I can tell, this has been a problem with standard electrolytic
capacitors in radial and axial configurations designed for through-board
soldering.
In the case of Sony, about 14-15 years ago, they used Elna capacitors of
special makes which later had problems with leaking.
So far, I've experienced failures of Elna caps with their LongLife and Duorex
II variety, which are supposed to be superior to Elna's standard stock and are
also more expensive.
The LongLife caps were in older versions of the early 1990s vintage Sony SMPS
module and have had problems. Newer versions of this module are exactly the
same in every way except for the brand of caps that were used, which were
Matsushita instead of Elna.
Now, let's get one thing perfectly clear here about Elna. Elna is a Japanese
parts manufacturer and they usually build parts, both industry standard and
custom order, that are of high quality. However, they managed to manufacture
bum caps which affected a lot of Sony products, as well as some others that
happened to use faulty stocks of LongLife and Duorex II caps (BTW, this problem
happened well before the Chinese/Taiwanese capacitor fiasco ever occured).
This isn't a design fault with Sony themselves as their supplier was at fault,
and it's certainly not an economical decision as the caps chosen were higher
end than the standard stock.
In addition to Matsushita and Elna, Other brands of caps that get used which
are also Japanese include Nichicon, Nippon Chemicon, and Sanyo.
Plus, mistakes do happen in the manufacture of electrolytic capacitors which
can cause unexpected failures, even with decent brands. Electrolytic caps are
one of the most significant weaknesses in just about any electronic circuit you
can think of.
What makes it potentially worse is with surface mount electrolytic caps, where
they are exepected to deal with condensing or coupling tasks in much smaller
packages. As a result, they tend to be less reliable. It is not unusual to
have SMD capacitor failures resulting in leakage within 5-10 years. This is
why the average camcorder for compact video cassette formats, regardless of
brand, tend have a lifespan of less than a decade. Afterwards, they tend to
exhibit a variety of problems directly related to the inherent problems with
surface mount capacitors including malfunctioning onscreen displays,
malfunctioning viewfinders, malfunctioning CCD pickups, malfunctioning
transports, malfunctioning video process, malfunctioning audio process,
malfunctioning syscon, total inoperability, etc.
| Quote: | I believe most of the bad ones were on
the main board, a part which Sony no longer offered or it would have
been easier to replace the whole board (thanks, Sony).
|
In the case of a module that is no longer available for replacement, it is
indicative of a model that could be several years old and would also indicate a
model that is way out of warranty. Also, if the model is relatively obscure,
then parts can also be difficult to source as there may not be enough demand
for the manufacturer to keep a stockpile
Both instances of limited parts availability has been a problem with many
manufacturers, including Matsushita Electric (Panasonic, Quasar, Technics,
National).
An RCA VHS hi-fi VCR that was OEMed by Panasonic used an unusual upper head
drum that had part of the rotary transformer assembled to it by design.
Traditionally for VHS decks, the upper half of the rotary transformer and the
upper head drum are two different parts. The upper half of the rotary
transforer will have connections for the upper head drum that is either
soldered or snapped in and the drum is fixed into place with screws. The RCA
VCR has both the upper part of the rotary transformer and the upper head drum
integrated into one easily removable part.
Anyways, the old upper drum had worn heads which affected playback on EP. The
upper drum was easy to remove and install as a result, but that became
pointless when a replacement upper drum was not available from RCA, Panasonic,
or any aftermarket manufacturers. Plus, the fact that it had part of the
rotary transformer integrated would have assured a very expensive part if it
were available. And, all this trouble for a machine that was just four years
old at the time. The machine was long out of warranty and discontinued by that
time, too. An example that Panasonic can be just as bad as Sony when it comes
to supplying parts for legacy models.
Besides, without further information to clarify the example, such as model
number, date of manufacture, estimated hours of usage, and at least the brand
name of the caps, the example ends up being flawed and cannot provide an
accurate enough assessment to allow a good judgement by anyone other than the
individual presenting it.
Reply to Neorenegade
| Quote: | Hmph... so do you figure it was more voltage recification, or signal
processing that they were needed for? I can imagine a coupld dozen caps
but a couple hundred... wow.
|
The problem can be unique or fairly common. It depends on the product, what it
used to work, how it used it, for how long, and under what conditions.
These instances assume a perfectly functional capacitor with no defects in
materials, manufacturing, and workmanship. Let's assume the Sony professional
Hi-8 deck that sherwood has mentioned had perfect caps up until the failure
occured and is the unit in question.
If the deck was subject to relatively extreme heat, possibly due to poor
ventilation and/or used around other heat sources, which is certainly possible
if the deck was used in an enclosed space like inside a mobile box with rack
mounting, then capacitor problems could occur over time. Heat is one of the
biggest enemies of electrolytic caps.
If the deck was seldom used, then that can also be a cause. Neglect is another
enemy of electrolytic capacitors.
If the deck was hit by power surges, some capacitors which take the brunt can
sustain damage that could result in leakage or bursting in severe instances.
Milder instances can shorten the cap's useful life. Caps can also sustain
accumulative damage from repeated mild instances which may lead to eventual
failure as well. Overloading is another enemy of electrolytic caps. However,
this instance is usually limited to failures almost exclusively in the power
supply.
Sometimes, there are electrolytic caps that simply wear out due to usage and/or
age. Electrolytic caps have a fluid electrolyte suspended within a retention
medium which has the potential of drying out over time. Consistent and
extended overheating can also accelerate this.
These are just small examples of what can happen to cause such a massive
failure in that Sony deck.
In some cases of failure resulting in a massive repair, it can be the
customer's fault and not due to fault in the product. A customer might have
been abusive by using the product to death, using the product in unsuitable
conditions, neglecting it for too long before needing to use it, etc.
But, without knowing more about sherwood's example, no conclusive answers can
possibly be made. Only sheer speculation.
Also, with the wording of the original post made by sherwood, this seems more
like an instance of ignorant country-bashing which mutated into selective
brand-bashing of a most unusual nature.
He bashes Japanese engineers and Japanese manufacturers overall, complained
about Panasonic products with specific examples, and now suddenly has nothing
but good things to say about Panasonic and starts to bash a different Japanese
manufacturer with vague examples?
Such an overly irrational outburst with an unusual development in claims from
this poster all the way from the very beginning makes me question his integrity
and the validity of his claims.
He makes a general statement declaring all Japanese engineers are morons, then
retracts it with a different statement that contradicts his claims and also
reveals a bias. He can't make up his own mind! - Reinhart |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sherwood
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:37 pm Post subject:
Re: Japanese VCR engineers are morons |
|
|
"LASERandDVDfan" <laseranddvdfan@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040811023026.24774.00001193@mb-m16.aol.com...
| Quote: | Replying to post from sherwood through a response from another poster.
The recent problem with caps resulted from a defective electrolyte
that
was used in the past to manufacture millions and millions of cheap
capacitors, mostly by Taiwan companies.
To be more specific, an incomplete electrolyte formula that was
essentially
stolen from Rubycon was used by many cheaper Taiwanese and Chinese
capacitor
manufacturers.
A scientist that worked there left Rubycon and then gave the
incomplete formula
to outside sources. The incomplete formula allows the electrolyte to
undergo
electrolysis and form hyrdogen gas that would build up internal
pressure and
eventually burst the can.
There were, however, a few Taiwanese capacitor makers that weren't
affected.
Jamicon is one brand as their electrolyte supply was sourced from
Matsushita
Electric in Osaka, Japan.
This problem has mainly affected mostly non-Japanese electronics
brands, mainly
in Taiwan and China. Consequently, this is also why many mainboard
manufacturers have had capacitor troubles a few years ago due to this
event,
even from respected brands like Asus, Abit, and Soyo. A lot of
mainboard
manufacturers, including a few of the good ones, are based in Taiwan
and China.
But, as far as I can tell, this has been a problem with standard
electrolytic
capacitors in radial and axial configurations designed for
through-board
soldering.
In the case of Sony, about 14-15 years ago, they used Elna capacitors
of
special makes which later had problems with leaking.
So far, I've experienced failures of Elna caps with their LongLife and
Duorex
II variety, which are supposed to be superior to Elna's standard stock
and are
also more expensive.
The LongLife caps were in older versions of the early 1990s vintage
Sony SMPS
module and have had problems. Newer versions of this module are
exactly the
same in every way except for the brand of caps that were used, which
were
Matsushita instead of Elna.
Now, let's get one thing perfectly clear here about Elna. Elna is a
Japanese
parts manufacturer and they usually build parts, both industry
standard and
custom order, that are of high quality. However, they managed to
manufacture
bum caps which affected a lot of Sony products, as well as some others
that
happened to use faulty stocks of LongLife and Duorex II caps (BTW,
this problem
happened well before the Chinese/Taiwanese capacitor fiasco ever
occured).
This isn't a design fault with Sony themselves as their supplier was
at fault,
and it's certainly not an economical decision as the caps chosen were
higher
end than the standard stock.
In addition to Matsushita and Elna, Other brands of caps that get used
which
are also Japanese include Nichicon, Nippon Chemicon, and Sanyo.
Plus, mistakes do happen in the manufacture of electrolytic capacitors
which
can cause unexpected failures, even with decent brands. Electrolytic
caps are
one of the most significant weaknesses in just about any electronic
circuit you
can think of.
What makes it potentially worse is with surface mount electrolytic
caps, where
they are exepected to deal with condensing or coupling tasks in much
smaller
packages. As a result, they tend to be less reliable. It is not
unusual to
have SMD capacitor failures resulting in leakage within 5-10 years.
This is
why the average camcorder for compact video cassette formats,
regardless of
brand, tend have a lifespan of less than a decade. Afterwards, they
tend to
exhibit a variety of problems directly related to the inherent
problems with
surface mount capacitors including malfunctioning onscreen displays,
malfunctioning viewfinders, malfunctioning CCD pickups, malfunctioning
transports, malfunctioning video process, malfunctioning audio
process,
malfunctioning syscon, total inoperability, etc.
I believe most of the bad ones were on
the main board, a part which Sony no longer offered or it would
have
been easier to replace the whole board (thanks, Sony).
In the case of a module that is no longer available for replacement,
it is
indicative of a model that could be several years old and would also
indicate a
model that is way out of warranty. Also, if the model is relatively
obscure,
then parts can also be difficult to source as there may not be enough
demand
for the manufacturer to keep a stockpile
Both instances of limited parts availability has been a problem with
many
manufacturers, including Matsushita Electric (Panasonic, Quasar,
Technics,
National).
An RCA VHS hi-fi VCR that was OEMed by Panasonic used an unusual upper
head
drum that had part of the rotary transformer assembled to it by
design.
Traditionally for VHS decks, the upper half of the rotary transformer
and the
upper head drum are two different parts. The upper half of the rotary
transforer will have connections for the upper head drum that is
either
soldered or snapped in and the drum is fixed into place with screws.
The RCA
VCR has both the upper part of the rotary transformer and the upper
head drum
integrated into one easily removable part.
Anyways, the old upper drum had worn heads which affected playback on
EP. The
upper drum was easy to remove and install as a result, but that became
pointless when a replacement upper drum was not available from RCA,
Panasonic,
or any aftermarket manufacturers. Plus, the fact that it had part of
the
rotary transformer integrated would have assured a very expensive part
if it
were available. And, all this trouble for a machine that was just
four years
old at the time. The machine was long out of warranty and
discontinued by that
time, too. An example that Panasonic can be just as bad as Sony when
it comes
to supplying parts for legacy models.
Besides, without further information to clarify the example, such as
model
number, date of manufacture, estimated hours of usage, and at least
the brand
name of the caps, the example ends up being flawed and cannot provide
an
accurate enough assessment to allow a good judgement by anyone other
than the
individual presenting it.
Reply to Neorenegade
Hmph... so do you figure it was more voltage recification, or signal
processing that they were needed for? I can imagine a coupld dozen
caps
but a couple hundred... wow.
The problem can be unique or fairly common. It depends on the
product, what it
used to work, how it used it, for how long, and under what conditions.
These instances assume a perfectly functional capacitor with no
defects in
materials, manufacturing, and workmanship. Let's assume the Sony
professional
Hi-8 deck that sherwood has mentioned had perfect caps up until the
failure
occured and is the unit in question.
If the deck was subject to relatively extreme heat, possibly due to
poor
ventilation and/or used around other heat sources, which is certainly
possible
if the deck was used in an enclosed space like inside a mobile box
with rack
mounting, then capacitor problems could occur over time. Heat is one
of the
biggest enemies of electrolytic caps.
If the deck was seldom used, then that can also be a cause. Neglect
is another
enemy of electrolytic capacitors.
If the deck was hit by power surges, some capacitors which take the
brunt can
sustain damage that could result in leakage or bursting in severe
instances.
Milder instances can shorten the cap's useful life. Caps can also
sustain
accumulative damage from repeated mild instances which may lead to
eventual
failure as well. Overloading is another enemy of electrolytic caps.
However,
this instance is usually limited to failures almost exclusively in the
power
supply.
Sometimes, there are electrolytic caps that simply wear out due to
usage and/or
age. Electrolytic caps have a fluid electrolyte suspended within a
retention
medium which has the potential of drying out over time. Consistent
and
extended overheating can also accelerate this.
These are just small examples of what can happen to cause such a
massive
failure in that Sony deck.
In some cases of failure resulting in a massive repair, it can be the
customer's fault and not due to fault in the product. A customer
might have
been abusive by using the product to death, using the product in
unsuitable
conditions, neglecting it for too long before needing to use it, etc.
But, without knowing more about sherwood's example, no conclusive
answers can
possibly be made. Only sheer speculation.
Also, with the wording of the original post made by sherwood, this
seems more
like an instance of ignorant country-bashing which mutated into
selective
brand-bashing of a most unusual nature.
He bashes Japanese engineers and Japanese manufacturers overall,
complained
about Panasonic products with specific examples, and now suddenly has
nothing
but good things to say about Panasonic and starts to bash a different
Japanese
manufacturer with vague examples?
Such an overly irrational outburst with an unusual development in
claims from
this poster all the way from the very beginning makes me question his
integrity
and the validity of his claims.
He makes a general statement declaring all Japanese engineers are
morons, then
retracts it with a different statement that contradicts his claims and
also
reveals a bias. He can't make up his own mind! - Reinhart
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--------------------------------
I don't recall saying or implying that ALL Japanese engineers are
morons, just the ones that made some of the design decisions mentioned
in my examples. And I didn't say that because of the examples of this
"silly" type of engineering that I discussed that Panasonic was a "bad"
brand while later defending it as a "good" brand. One could probably
find engineering and design flaws in ALL brands of electronics, I happen
to mention a few examples by Panasonic and Sony. My statements have had
NOTHING whatsoever to do with "country bashing" - I'm "bashing" those
engineers that in my opinion would fit into the "moron" category based
on some of their product design decisions. To help balance things out,
let me cite another Sony example of "moronic" engineering - on some of
their broadcast decks (and maybe industrial as well) they put a small
"Record Inhibit" light right above the "Record" button. The "inhibit"
light is, you guessed it, red! So when you are playing a tab that has
the tabs set for "inhibit", the light above the Record button is
illuminated, making the deck appear as if it is in the "Record" mode.
Dumb, dumb, dumb! And which "morons" at Sony and Panasonic decided that
some decks should have a little LED light on ALL the time, even when the
power is off??? Is the deck "On" or "Off"? This is an unbelievable
stupid "feature", invoking another one of those "what were they
thinking" questions.
Per the 8mm deck with the cap problem, it was, if I remember correctly,
a VO-9850 (another brilliant move - assigning a model # to a Hi-8 deck
that is too similar to another Sony product (3/4" series). The deck was
purchased in the early to mid 1990s, perhaps around 1994-1996. It was
never used in a "rack" but on an open shelf and in an air-conditioned
environment. Usage was not heavy nor light, I would guess maybe up to a
couple hundreds hours a month if that, with possible spurts on non-use
for one or two week periods. It was never left "On" when not in use.
This deck was the "best" and most advanced 8mm deck that Sony (or anyone
else) ever made, having endless features, XLR jacks, a nice jog shuttle
system and so on. In typical 8mm fashion, the "real time" counter always
slipped in FF or RW, so trying to establish the exact length of recorded
sections was not possible. Playback quality and stability was top notch,
meaning that it played and recorded 8mm tapes to the best of that
format's ability, hiding many of the "flaws" inherent in the 8mm design.
SW |
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