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James
Guest
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 Posted:
Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:16 am Post subject:
Cable Tivos = 1 tuner, but DTV = 2 tuners ? |
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Anyone have an explanation why the Tivo units for cable tv use seem to only
have one cable tuner, wheras all the DirecTivo units seem to have 2 tuners ?
I am moving and trying to decide whether to go cable or DirecTV (need to buy
new Tivo for either case), and this difference may actually swing me towards
DirecTV though I would otherwise probably have gone cable. Are there any
lower cost (under $300) DVR's for cable that do have 2 tuners ?
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Dave Platt
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:25 am Post subject:
Re: Cable Tivos = 1 tuner, but DTV = 2 tuners ? |
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| Quote: | Anyone have an explanation why the Tivo units for cable tv use seem to only
have one cable tuner, wheras all the DirecTivo units seem to have 2 tuners ?
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The big reason is cost.
The analog-input (cable/OTA) boxes have only one tuner, because they
have only one set of MPEG audio/video encoders and the required
(substantial) amount of RAM required for the encoding. Supporting a
second tuner would require duplicating the MPEG encoders and
supporting circuitry, at a significant increase in the price of the
recorder. Also, a second cable box would be required on many cable
systems, to get full use of the second input.
The DirecTV receivers have simple tuners with digital outputs, and do
not require the (expensive) MPEG encoder chips or separate RAM chips
for 'em, because the data is already MPEG-encoded before it is
transmitted via satellite.
--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
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Charlie
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:22 pm Post subject:
Re: Cable Tivos = 1 tuner, but DTV = 2 tuners ? |
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"James" <james9999@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tNHed.238625$wV.156433@attbi_s54...
| Quote: | Anyone have an explanation why the Tivo units for cable tv use seem to
only have one cable tuner, wheras all the DirecTivo units seem to have 2
tuners ?
I am moving and trying to decide whether to go cable or DirecTV (need to
buy new Tivo for either case), and this difference may actually swing me
towards DirecTV though I would otherwise probably have gone cable. Are
there any lower cost (under $300) DVR's for cable that do have 2 tuners ?
|
I first had a stand-alone tivo when I had cable tv; earlier this year, I
became a directv customer and got the directivo unit. The two tuner thing
is GREAT!! It's the single best feature of the directivo!!!
You can have two different channels that are being buffered, great for
flipping between two games, if you were watching game one and something
happened in game two, you can flip over to game two and go back up to 30
minutes to see what you missed. You can also watch one channel while
recording a different channel, something you cannot do with the one tuner
stand alone unit. In fact you could watch something previously recorded
while you recorded two other shows at the same time.
I can do so much more with the directivo than before. And I believe you can
get a directivo for $99 or less through directv, so what are you waiting
for? |
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ack
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:23 pm Post subject:
Re: Cable Tivos = 1 tuner, but DTV = 2 tuners ? |
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"Dave Platt" <dplatt@radagast.org> wrote in message
news:10nminjqvaand08@corp.supernews.com...
| Quote: | Anyone have an explanation why the Tivo units for cable tv use seem to
only
have one cable tuner, wheras all the DirecTivo units seem to have 2
tuners ?
The big reason is cost.
The analog-input (cable/OTA) boxes have only one tuner, because they
have only one set of MPEG audio/video encoders and the required
(substantial) amount of RAM required for the encoding. Supporting a
second tuner would require duplicating the MPEG encoders and
supporting circuitry, at a significant increase in the price of the
recorder. Also, a second cable box would be required on many cable
systems, to get full use of the second input.
The DirecTV receivers have simple tuners with digital outputs, and do
not require the (expensive) MPEG encoder chips or separate RAM chips
for 'em, because the data is already MPEG-encoded before it is
transmitted via satellite.
|
To amplify Dave's explanation a bit:
DirecTV converts every program channel it receives to an MPEG stream before
transmitting it via satellite. The DirecTV TiVo receiver needs only to grab
the stream that you "tune" to and record it onto the hard disk.
Analog TiVos (or any other analog DVR) has to first encode the analog signal
(video and audio) to an MPEG stream and then record it to the hard disk.
This two-step process requires processing circuitry and programming that
adds to the cost of the TiVo.
So why can't everyone just send MPEG streams like DirecTV so the customer
can have inexpensive DVRs with cool dual-recording and buffering features?
Because it costs money to do that.
DirecTV and the other digital satellite TV services have a leg up on cable
in that their system required the use of digital encoding techniques in
order to be able to deliver the large number of television channels that
they now have using only one satellite. By doing so, the need for a
steerable dish at the customer end was eliminated. The result is a system
that is easy to use and far less prone to mechanical failure.
All the expense for the creation of satellite TV using data (MPEG) streams
was up front. Features like dual receivers and buffering shows as they
arrive in the customer's DVR are a bonus. A handy one at that!
When cable systems convert completely to digital transmission systems, they
too will be able to offer the same capabilities. However, they will be in a
catching-up mode AND they will be faced with resistance from many customers
who see the need for the required extra-cost converter box or DVR to view
the digital channels on their TV as some sort of giant rip-off.
Ack |
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Bennice
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 24, 2004 7:26 pm Post subject:
Re: Cable Tivos = 1 tuner, but DTV = 2 tuners ? |
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| Quote: | I can do so much more with the directivo than before. And I believe you
can
get a directivo for $99 or less through directv, so what are you waiting
for?
|
FYI - I saw some 35-hour (40GB) DirecTivo boxes at Bestbuy for about $80
just this past week. The going rate right now for these is about $100, but
there are one or two 75 hour (80GB) models available at this price also. I
think we're going to start seeing these higher capacity models replace the
35-40 hour units in the very near future, as the 40GB hard disk market is
beginning to fade.
Believe me - YOU WANT THIS! Don't bother with anything else out there right
now. DirecTV has the best offering that exists right now, and they'll hook
you with a sweetheart offer if you're a new subscriber. I left DTV and came
back within a month and they rolled out the red carpet. Free Tivo unit (in
addition to the two I already had), free installation (not that I needed
it), and a sweet programming deal. Cable nor Dish Network can beat that,
and the technology is MUCH better. |
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James
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:06 pm Post subject:
Re: Cable Tivos = 1 tuner, but DTV = 2 tuners ? |
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| Quote: | I can do so much more with the directivo than before. And I believe you
can get a directivo for $99 or less through directv, so what are you
waiting for?
|
Thanks for the explanations as to why the DirecTivos can do it more easily.
Makes sense.
I my case, the ONLY reason I wouldn't just jump on a DirecTivo is simply the
need to mount a dish and run a cable. I'm moving temporarily to an
apartment, which likel will have cable all prewired. But for DirecTV, I
would have to have an apartment that faces the right way, put a somewhat
unsightly dish on the small patio (if they will even allow it), etc.
Though I am though no Tivo expert, I am quite computer savvy and experienced
building my own computers, etc. I noticed that Hauppague has announced a
dual cable tuner PCI card that does MPEG2 hardware encoding (
http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/products/data_pvr500mce.html ) and is
integrated into the new Windows Media Center 2005 operating system. The
prior reviews of Windows MCE were so-so, but this new version has gotten
very good reviews. I don't see a price on the card yet, as it apparently
is to ship in a couple weeks. In my specific case, this may be the best
way to go. |
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Jack Zwick
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:45 am Post subject:
Re: Cable Tivos = 1 tuner, but DTV = 2 tuners ? |
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In article <tNHed.238625$wV.156433@attbi_s54>,
"James" <james9999@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Anyone have an explanation why the Tivo units for cable tv use seem to only
have one cable tuner, wheras all the DirecTivo units seem to have 2 tuners ?
I am moving and trying to decide whether to go cable or DirecTV (need to buy
new Tivo for either case), and this difference may actually swing me towards
DirecTV though I would otherwise probably have gone cable. Are there any
lower cost (under $300) DVR's for cable that do have 2 tuners ?
|
No, and the subscription fee is less for DirecTiVo also. $4.99/month
paid to DirecTv rather than $12.99 paid to TiVo. |
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Hugh Candlin
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:43 am Post subject:
Re: Cable Tivos = 1 tuner, but DTV = 2 tuners ? |
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James <james9999@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:x2Ted.299196$MQ5.127633@attbi_s52...
| Quote: |
I my case, the ONLY reason I wouldn't just jump on a DirecTivo is simply the
need to mount a dish and run a cable. I'm moving temporarily to an
apartment, which likel will have cable all prewired. But for DirecTV, I
would have to have an apartment that faces the right way, put a somewhat
unsightly dish on the small patio (if they will even allow it), etc.
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http://www.vmcsatellite.com/bargains/right2satellite.html |
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Matt Ackeret
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:19 am Post subject:
Re: Cable Tivos = 1 tuner, but DTV = 2 tuners ? |
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In article <tNHed.238625$wV.156433@attbi_s54>,
James <james9999@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Anyone have an explanation why the Tivo units for cable tv use seem to only
have one cable tuner, wheras all the DirecTivo units seem to have 2 tuners ?
I am moving and trying to decide whether to go cable or DirecTV (need to buy
new Tivo for either case), and this difference may actually swing me towards
DirecTV though I would otherwise probably have gone cable. Are there any
lower cost (under $300) DVR's for cable that do have 2 tuners ?
|
Some cable-company PVRs do have 2 tuners, and can record 2 shows at once,
regardless of whether they're transmitted digitally or in analog.
(Is "analogly" or "analogally" a word? Neither seems to be, according to
dictionary.com)
This, and/or cooperative scheduling, is a feature I'd love to have in Tivos.
(and would get me to upgrade to S2) |
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Jack Zwick
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:09 am Post subject:
Re: Cable Tivos = 1 tuner, but DTV = 2 tuners ? |
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In article <cmui82$cgn$7@news.apple.com>,
mattack@vax.hanford.org (Matt Ackeret) wrote:
| Quote: | In article <tNHed.238625$wV.156433@attbi_s54>,
James <james9999@hotmail.com> wrote:
Anyone have an explanation why the Tivo units for cable tv use seem to only
have one cable tuner, wheras all the DirecTivo units seem to have 2 tuners ?
I am moving and trying to decide whether to go cable or DirecTV (need to buy
new Tivo for either case), and this difference may actually swing me towards
DirecTV though I would otherwise probably have gone cable. Are there any
lower cost (under $300) DVR's for cable that do have 2 tuners ?
Some cable-company PVRs do have 2 tuners, and can record 2 shows at once,
regardless of whether they're transmitted digitally or in analog.
(Is "analogly" or "analogally" a word? Neither seems to be, according to
dictionary.com)
This, and/or cooperative scheduling, is a feature I'd love to have in Tivos.
(and would get me to upgrade to S2)
|
Yup still only 1 tuner for a Standalone unit, but the Cable Company's
SA8000 ALWAYS get abysmal reviews. It locks up, rebooots on its own,
doesnt get complete recordings, lacks most of the TiVo functionality
etc, etc. |
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Poppa H.
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:09 am Post subject:
Re: Cable Tivos = 1 tuner, but DTV = 2 tuners ? |
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My experiences and those of others I know support the reviews for
non-Tivo-based DVR services and hardware. I'm usually one of those guys who
will give the underdog the benefit of the doubt, but the SA Tivo and
DirecTivo offerings are simply a superior product right now. This, taking
into account ease of use, hardware/software stability, price and overall
value.
"Jack Zwick" <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jzwick3-B7D4B0.20541010112004@news1.east.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | In article <cmui82$cgn$7@news.apple.com>,
mattack@vax.hanford.org (Matt Ackeret) wrote:
In article <tNHed.238625$wV.156433@attbi_s54>,
James <james9999@hotmail.com> wrote:
Anyone have an explanation why the Tivo units for cable tv use seem to
only
have one cable tuner, wheras all the DirecTivo units seem to have 2
tuners ?
I am moving and trying to decide whether to go cable or DirecTV (need
to buy
new Tivo for either case), and this difference may actually swing me
towards
DirecTV though I would otherwise probably have gone cable. Are there
any
lower cost (under $300) DVR's for cable that do have 2 tuners ?
Some cable-company PVRs do have 2 tuners, and can record 2 shows at
once,
regardless of whether they're transmitted digitally or in analog.
(Is "analogly" or "analogally" a word? Neither seems to be, according
to
dictionary.com)
This, and/or cooperative scheduling, is a feature I'd love to have in
Tivos.
(and would get me to upgrade to S2)
Yup still only 1 tuner for a Standalone unit, but the Cable Company's
SA8000 ALWAYS get abysmal reviews. It locks up, rebooots on its own,
doesnt get complete recordings, lacks most of the TiVo functionality
etc, etc. |
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