| Author |
Message |
Tom Schlangen
Guest
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 Posted:
Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:40 pm Post subject:
Hewlett Packard OPT identification & usage |
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Gentlemen,
I got two xfrms, stamped HP logo and parts number 9120-0016.
Presumably they are OPTs from the HP 200CD signal generator.
I say "presumably" because this 200CD sig gen was introduced
1952 as per info present on the HP online museum site, but
these OPTs are date-stamped "SEP 07 1977". This would mean,
HP would have produced those parts 1/4 century after introduction
of that sig gen ... which I doubt somehow ...
If someone has the chance to verify the parts number or could
have a look into a 200CD or could supply addtional data on
these OPTs, I would be most grateful.
By measurement, these OPTs show a close to 1 + 1 : 1 winding
ratio, DCR of both primaries being in the 130 ohms range.
Given that the 200CD uses 2x EL86/6CW5 as output tubes and has
a nominal 600 ohms output impedance, the winding ratio seems
about fitting.
Also given the extreme freq range (5Hz to some hundred (!) kHz)
of 200CD according to its specs, I have might have a pair of
"monster" single-ended to PP ISTs here for a future project when
using these OPTs in reverse, or not?
Tom
--
To err is human - to purr feline.
- R. Byrne
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Gene
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:40 pm Post subject:
Re: Hewlett Packard OPT identification & usage |
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Hmmm... Could they be power transformers for the 5342A?
-Gene
"Tom Schlangen" <serpentine@netcologne.de> wrote in message
news:g5jdb2-60o.ln1@julabi.snakes.netcologne.de...
| Quote: | Gentlemen,
I got two xfrms, stamped HP logo and parts number 9120-0016.
Presumably they are OPTs from the HP 200CD signal generator.
I say "presumably" because this 200CD sig gen was introduced
1952 as per info present on the HP online museum site, but
these OPTs are date-stamped "SEP 07 1977". This would mean,
HP would have produced those parts 1/4 century after introduction
of that sig gen ... which I doubt somehow ...
If someone has the chance to verify the parts number or could
have a look into a 200CD or could supply addtional data on
these OPTs, I would be most grateful.
By measurement, these OPTs show a close to 1 + 1 : 1 winding
ratio, DCR of both primaries being in the 130 ohms range.
Given that the 200CD uses 2x EL86/6CW5 as output tubes and has
a nominal 600 ohms output impedance, the winding ratio seems
about fitting.
Also given the extreme freq range (5Hz to some hundred (!) kHz)
of 200CD according to its specs, I have might have a pair of
"monster" single-ended to PP ISTs here for a future project when
using these OPTs in reverse, or not?
Tom
--
To err is human - to purr feline.
- R. Byrne |
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John Stewart
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:21 am Post subject:
Re: Hewlett Packard OPT identification & usage |
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Tom Schlangen wrote:
| Quote: | Gentlemen,
I got two xfrms, stamped HP logo and parts number 9120-0016.
Presumably they are OPTs from the HP 200CD signal generator.
I say "presumably" because this 200CD sig gen was introduced
1952 as per info present on the HP online museum site, but
these OPTs are date-stamped "SEP 07 1977". This would mean,
HP would have produced those parts 1/4 century after introduction
of that sig gen ... which I doubt somehow ...
If someone has the chance to verify the parts number or could
have a look into a 200CD or could supply addtional data on
these OPTs, I would be most grateful.
By measurement, these OPTs show a close to 1 + 1 : 1 winding
ratio, DCR of both primaries being in the 130 ohms range.
Given that the 200CD uses 2x EL86/6CW5 as output tubes and has
a nominal 600 ohms output impedance, the winding ratio seems
about fitting.
Also given the extreme freq range (5Hz to some hundred (!) kHz)
of 200CD according to its specs, I have might have a pair of
"monster" single-ended to PP ISTs here for a future project when
using these OPTs in reverse, or not?
Tom
--
To err is human - to purr feline.
- R. Byrne
|
My HP200CD Operating & Service Manual shows the following-
T1 200CD-9 HF OPT
T2 9120-0016 LF OPT
T3 9100-1329 Power Transformer
Cheers, JLS |
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Tom Schlangen
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:11 am Post subject:
Re: Hewlett Packard OPT identification & usage |
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Hi John,
| Quote: | My HP200CD Operating & Service Manual shows the following-
T1 200CD-9 HF OPT
T2 9120-0016 LF OPT
T3 9100-1329 Power Transformer
|
Tnx2u4 looking this up. Yes, so that makes sense and
I got the "LF OPTs".
Whatever HP means with "LF" in this case, since first
tests (only one primary used) show a (quite sharpe)
transmission band resonance peek at ca. 50 kHz, but
above that, back to normal level _way_ above 100 kHz.
I would have expected the curve to drop after the peak
continously with a 6db/octave slope.
Couldn't check LF end, since my sig gen doesn't go
below 10 Hz.
Tnx2u again!
Tom
--
Knowledge is power - knowledge shared is power lost.
-- A. Crowley |
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Ian Iveson
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:37 am Post subject:
Re: Hewlett Packard OPT identification & usage |
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"Tom Schlangen" <serpentine@netcologne.de> wrote
| Quote: | Whatever HP means with "LF" in this case, since first
tests (only one primary used) show a (quite sharpe)
transmission band resonance peek at ca. 50 kHz, but
above that, back to normal level _way_ above 100 kHz.
I would have expected the curve to drop after the peak
continously with a 6db/octave slope.
Couldn't check LF end, since my sig gen doesn't go
below 10 Hz.
|
Is this with correct (or intended) source impedance and load? What
happens to phase after the peak?
Possibly high Pri/Sec interwinding capacitance?
Saturation current would be worth finding out, or saturation
frequency at intended voltage. What is the power output of the sig
gen?
cheers, Ian |
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Brian McAllister
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:39 am Post subject:
Re: Hewlett Packard OPT identification & usage |
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On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:40:18 +0100, Tom Schlangen
<serpentine@netcologne.de> wrote:
| Quote: | Gentlemen,
I got two xfrms, stamped HP logo and parts number 9120-0016.
Presumably they are OPTs from the HP 200CD signal generator.
I say "presumably" because this 200CD sig gen was introduced
1952 as per info present on the HP online museum site, but
these OPTs are date-stamped "SEP 07 1977". This would mean,
HP would have produced those parts 1/4 century after introduction
of that sig gen ... which I doubt somehow ...
If someone has the chance to verify the parts number or could
have a look into a 200CD or could supply addtional data on
these OPTs, I would be most grateful.
By measurement, these OPTs show a close to 1 + 1 : 1 winding
ratio, DCR of both primaries being in the 130 ohms range.
Given that the 200CD uses 2x EL86/6CW5 as output tubes and has
a nominal 600 ohms output impedance, the winding ratio seems
about fitting.
Also given the extreme freq range (5Hz to some hundred (!) kHz)
of 200CD according to its specs, I have might have a pair of
"monster" single-ended to PP ISTs here for a future project when
using these OPTs in reverse, or not?
Tom
|
The 200CD had several iterations. In 1954 it Used a pair of 6AU5s as
the output tubes. The one That I have open on my bench right now uses
part no 910-84 as the low frequency output transformer. I think that
all versions used separate high and low frequency transformers.
I will Post the Schematic for the earlier unit on ABSE.
Brian McAllister
Sarasota, Florida
email bkm at oldtech dot net and@hope.thespambots.die |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:20 am Post subject:
Re: Hewlett Packard OPT identification & usage |
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Manufacture of the HP 200CD stopped in 1986 AFAIK....these xfmrs belong
in one and nowhere else. |
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Chris Hornbeck
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:44 am Post subject:
Re: Hewlett Packard OPT identification & usage |
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On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 22:11:17 +0100, Tom Schlangen
<serpentine@netcologne.de> wrote:
| Quote: | Whatever HP means with "LF" in this case, since first
tests (only one primary used) show a (quite sharpe)
transmission band resonance peek at ca. 50 kHz, but
above that, back to normal level _way_ above 100 kHz.
I would have expected the curve to drop after the peak
continously with a 6db/octave slope.
|
High frequency response in transformers will be very sensitive
to source (and slightly less to load) impedance. Without
your specifying them, it's impossible to comment.
A single pole rolloff would imply the *lack* of resonance.
In transformers this is typically from "leakage" inductance,
the name given to the residual inductance that doesn't couple
to the secondaries.
Resonant rolloffs will be 12 dB/octave each. The beautiful
symmetry of the world includes this in the electromagnetic,
the acoustic, and the purely mechanical (mass-compliance)
realms.
One things fer sure; transformers designed for the couple-
hundred-ohms impedance range can have some serious bandwidth.
God's Own Impedance is about a hundred ohms (-ish). But
don't ask me why; just is.
Chris Hornbeck
"Happiness isn't something you experience; it's something you remember."
-Oscar Levant |
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Tom Schlangen
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Hewlett Packard OPT identification & usage |
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Thank you very much for havinh helped!
Tom
-- |
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Tom Schlangen
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:43 pm Post subject:
Re: Hewlett Packard OPT identification & usage |
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Hi Ian,
| Quote: | Is this with correct (or intended) source impedance and load?
|
Source impedance was "600 ohms" terminal of the sig gen being used.
Load was a 560 ohms resistor.
| Quote: | What happens to phase after the peak?
|
I will hook things up again and have a closer look this weekend.
| Quote: | Possibly high Pri/Sec interwinding capacitance?
|
I don?t hope so for an OPT used in measuring gear ...
| Quote: | Saturation current would be worth finding out, or saturation
frequency at intended voltage. What is the power output of
the sig gen?
|
Very little, 20 Vpp into 600 ohms, so:
20Vpp / 2,828 = 7,1Vrms
7,1*7,1V rms / 600 ohms = ca. 85mW.
Tom
-- |
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Tom Schlangen
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:44 pm Post subject:
Re: Hewlett Packard OPT identification & usage |
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calcerise@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Manufacture of the HP 200CD stopped in 1986 AFAIK....these xfmrs belong
in one and nowhere else.
|
Wow, what a product life span! Obviously it did its job excellently.
Tom
-- |
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Tom Schlangen
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:12 am Post subject:
Re: Hewlett Packard OPT identification & usage |
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Hi Brian,
| Quote: | I will Post the Schematic for the earlier unit on ABSE.
|
Got it. In turn, I posted the 6AU6/6CW5 version to ABSE,
same thread.
Tom
--
Knowledge is power - knowledge shared is power lost.
-- A. Crowley |
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John Stewart
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:12 am Post subject:
Re: Hewlett Packard OPT identification & usage |
|
|
Tom Schlangen wrote:
| Quote: | Gentlemen,
I got two xfrms, stamped HP logo and parts number 9120-0016.
Presumably they are OPTs from the HP 200CD signal generator.
I say "presumably" because this 200CD sig gen was introduced
1952 as per info present on the HP online museum site, but
these OPTs are date-stamped "SEP 07 1977". This would mean,
HP would have produced those parts 1/4 century after introduction
of that sig gen ... which I doubt somehow ...
If someone has the chance to verify the parts number or could
have a look into a 200CD or could supply addtional data on
these OPTs, I would be most grateful.
By measurement, these OPTs show a close to 1 + 1 : 1 winding
ratio, DCR of both primaries being in the 130 ohms range.
Given that the 200CD uses 2x EL86/6CW5 as output tubes and has
a nominal 600 ohms output impedance, the winding ratio seems
about fitting.
Also given the extreme freq range (5Hz to some hundred (!) kHz)
of 200CD according to its specs, I have might have a pair of
"monster" single-ended to PP ISTs here for a future project when
using these OPTs in reverse, or not?
Tom
--
To err is human - to purr feline.
- R. Byrne
|
I have posted at ABSE another way of looking at the HP 200CD circuit.
Oddly, I don't see the circuits posted by others, but no matter. My
200CD is the 6AU6/6CW5 version & I have the manual complete with
schematic.
For those who don't know or may wonder, Bill Hewlett's contribution to
the circuit is the application of the thermal time constant &
coefficient of resistance of a tungsten bulb to stabilize the output
amplitude of the oscillator. The technique works equally well on the
Wein Bridge circuit as used by HP & the Bridged T as used by Heathkit.
It would probably work with a Twin T as well.
Cheers, John Stewart |
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